Some idea's

[norb]

Lots of great ideas here. We'll make sure to get them all in some sort of list when we're trying to figure out what to do for the next release.

[Kerflumoxed]

IronBMike wrote:

O. O. Howard wrote:

IronBMike wrote:

Here's something I just thought of, probably too late for it to be feasible anyways, but I'll go ahead and throw it out there.

To stop using artillery as shotguns...

I thought that is what they were for....

Historically guns were too important to put in the front line like we do in games, at least for extended periods of time or on purpose. As players we can take batteries from multiple divisions and mass them at the point of attack. Totally unrealistic.

Hmmmmm....isn't that what Lee did before Pickett's charge...as well as the Federals up on the ridge? Believe there are many examples of the "guns" in or close to the front line...could be wrong, however!

J

[Gfran64]

Malvern Hill, Fredericksburg, Atlanta????????


Greg B)

[Hancock the Superb]

Remember, there are two types of guns:
Long range ones and short range ones.

Guns are meant to be blasting positions from far away (long range ones are very good at this). However, howitzers and 6lb pounders aren't so good at this. (Remember Early at Cedar Mountain? Only half the artillery is present because Jackson only wanted his long range guns fighting. No need to produce unneccessary casualties with a gun that can't send a shell far enough. Although, you could have those guns there because the range of the map is a little off, and the guns were actually on the 2nd ridgeline, not the first..., but oh, well.)

Since the ridges at Gettysburg ar non-existant (sorry, I live in an area with mountain ranges, so the hills at Gettysburg are speed bumps B) ), there were few places to put cannon, and so Arnold's (I believe it is Arnold's) guns were placed in the copse of trees (they were 12lb Napoleons, which are of medium range, so they were placed under the supposive protection of the trees, though they could (and did) fire at closer enemy targets. If you have seen maps, you'll notice that the rest of the II Corps guns are in the rear (moreso than Arnold's), since they are mostly Parrotts and Ordnance Rifles.

Another example of guns getting out of hotly contested positions: The Wheatfield Road gunline. When Kershaw's brigade moves towards them, they start to limber, but the mistake of his regiments, and they came back to blast cannister at them, since an open flank is a gunner's dream (remember, colonels had to follow their orders, they can't just stop and say, I think I'll change front to the left and start blasting those guns to kingdom come!) Then, when Barksdale's brigade broke through Graham's position, the batteries skedaddled (excpet the delaying force).

2nd Bull Run - Jackson kept his batteries along Stony Ridge (which actually doesn't have quite as many trees on it, but Norb still did a fine job), not along the railroad cut where they would shred any charge to pieces (but also get mauled in the process).

Antietam - S. D. Lee's battalion limbered up and retreated when Greene's Division came up at them.

Fredericksburg - Confederate artillery was well behind the line (note to everyone: Walton's Washington (LA) Artillery was well behind Cobb's line (remember, hills are definetly NOT as steep as the game represents them (though I congratulate all modders on providing us very fine maps to play on). His guns were near the crest, far enough back so that if Cobb was overrun, he had enough time to limber his guns up and get out, but close enough that he could fire cannister over Cobbs' troops' heads.

There are many other classic examples of guns not being along the front line.

[Kerflumoxed]

Thought someone might be interested in the typical range of CW artillery utilizing a 5 degree elevation:

10-Pd. Parrott Rifle = 1900 Yds.
3" Ordnance Rifle = 1830 Yds.
20-Pd. Parrott Rifle = 1900 Yds.
12-Pd. James Rifle = 1700 Yds.
6-Pd. Whitworth Rifle = 2800 Yds.

Smoothbores
6-Pd. = 1523 Yds.
12 Pd. Gun = 1663 Yds.
12 Pd. Howitzer = 1072 Yds.
24 Pd. Howitzer = 1322 Yds.
32 Pd. Howitzer = 1504 Yds.
12 Pd. Nap = 1619 Yds.

Hope this is of interest.

J

[Rich Mac]

I think it's a bad idea to generalize artillery effectiveness at close range. Artillery was positioned along the front lines and in harms way with enough frequency that I would not consider it "gamey" to do so in SOW.

The first example that I can think of - and it occurred at Gettysburg - is Winslow's Battery of six 12lb Napoleons. They dominated the Wheatfield for 90 minutes with a LOS well under 300 yards. They only withdrew when Confederate infantry managed to make it to a rock outcropping 25 yards from the leftmost gun. Even then, the battery withdrew one gun at a time, not in a panicked retreat. Even with the enemy getting so close to them, they only suffered 10 casualties and lost no guns.

Civil War artillery was certainly capable of defending itself at close range.

Now, if someone tries to cover a several hundred yard front with nothing but artillery, then I think it's a mistake and certainly not realistic, although that is exactly what happened along the Millerstown Rd . If that sort of defense works in game, then perhaps it is some sort of exploit that should be looked at. However, I think that in a multiplayer environment, a human opponent is likely to make you pay for that tactic.

That being said, if I believe that you will be attacking a particular portion of my line, and I have some Napoleons available to put there, you can expect to be getting a face full of canister

[O. O. Howard]

I believe Hubert Dilger was also prone to allowing his battery to be close enough (or even advancing his battery of napoleons) to give the enemy some cannister. He was quite effective in his work.

[Hancock the Superb]

However, no battery of cannon could decimate even a regiment, which often happens in TC2M. In addition, I believe Winslow had infantry support in the form of de Trombiand's brigade, holding Stoney Hill, then retiring, then counter-attacking, etc. In fact, I've heard that the only reason why Winslow got out at all was because of a counter-attack by the 17th Maine (though it is often overlooked, read about it in the Civil War Times).

[Armchair General]

Hancock the Superb wrote:

However, no battery of cannon could decimate even a regiment, which often happens in TC2M. In addition, I believe Winslow had infantry support in the form of de Trombiand's brigade, holding Stoney Hill, then retiring, then counter-attacking, etc. In fact, I've heard that the only reason why Winslow got out at all was because of a counter-attack by the 17th Maine (though it is often overlooked, read about it in the Civil War Times).

The 17th did a lot more in the Wheatfield than just counter-attack to save a battery of cannons. At one point they were the only whole regiment fighting. They were positioned behind a stone wall and the veterans decimated the rebels as they came out of the Rose Woods. Eventually they were only beaten back because their ammunition ran out. By that time they had already repulsed two bayonet charges.

[Joshua l.Chamberlain]

Winslow saved his guns but he was wounded and all of his limber horses were killed, so I think it is amazing that he even got all of his guns out at all.