Why is the Bayonet being shortaned?

[O. O. Howard]

BOSTON wrote:

I'm pretty sure repeater infantry units did'nt have bayonets, never had luck to have a regular infantry unit do a charge when out of ammo.

I thought the Spencer did have a bayonet. The Sharps Rifle (breach loader but not repeater) did. I am almost certain that the Spencer did. I think the front sight is designed to take a more-or-less standard socket bayonet.

[BOSTON]

OOH-


Near the N. Entrance to Baxter State Park


Spencer Bayonet Used at Gettysburg
« on: October 06, 2007, 06:49:20 pm »

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Hello SSS,

Just passing this information along as I found it on another web site.

"A Spencer Rifle bayonet found on Culp's Hill. This is reportedly the only documented relic Spencer bayonet recovered at Gettysburg. Interestingly, the first reported Confederate use of a Spencer was by Sergeant W.O. Johnson, Co. C of the 49th Virginia Infantry on July 3rd 1863. He used a Spencer Rifle in the fighting around Culps Hill at the battle of Gettysburg. This rifle may have been captured from the 5th or 6th Michigan Cavalry, since at that time they were the only Federal troops in the Army of the Potomic to have them as issued firearms. One can only speculate if this same bayonet was from the rifle used by Sergeant Johnson, it is however, a distinct possibility."

Did a little search and came up with this.

BOSTON

[O. O. Howard]

BOSTON wrote:

OOH-


Near the N. Entrance to Baxter State Park


Spencer Bayonet Used at Gettysburg
« on: October 06, 2007, 06:49:20 pm »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello SSS,

Just passing this information along as I found it on another web site.

"A Spencer Rifle bayonet found on Culp's Hill. This is reportedly the only documented relic Spencer bayonet recovered at Gettysburg. Interestingly, the first reported Confederate use of a Spencer was by Sergeant W.O. Johnson, Co. C of the 49th Virginia Infantry on July 3rd 1863. He used a Spencer Rifle in the fighting around Culps Hill at the battle of Gettysburg. This rifle may have been captured from the 5th or 6th Michigan Cavalry, since at that time they were the only Federal troops in the Army of the Potomic to have them as issued firearms. One can only speculate if this same bayonet was from the rifle used by Sergeant Johnson, it is however, a distinct possibility."

Did a little search and came up with this.

BOSTON

That is interesting. It almost seems weird. Did the 5th and 6th Michigan have spencer rifles or carbines? I am pretty sure that the rifles had bayonets, but I doubt the carbines would. (The bayonet is not normally associated with weapontry issued to cavalry.)

I wonder where this guy from the 49th VA go the ammunition???? It was rim-fire rounds, and if he captured it, the ammo would not have lasted long and he would not have been able to get more.

[BOSTON]

I've seen the above story before on the web, however, looking under Spencer Rifles I have not found references to the rifle having a bayonet, or in any profile pictures.

[O. O. Howard]

BOSTON wrote:

I've seen the above story before on the web, however, looking under Spencer Rifles I have not found references to the rifle having a bayonet, or in any profile pictures.

How about this one:

"Probably the greatest tribute to Christopher Spencer's repeaters was given by the men that had carried them. At the end of the war, many used their final pay to purchas e the very guns they had carried. General Edwards of the 37th Massachusetts Infantry wrote to the Ordinance Department in June 1865:

"Our regiment was armed with the Spencer rifle on the 14th day of July, 1864, and we first had the opportunity of testing them in an engagement at Summit Point (Wes t) Virginia."......" At whatever position we have ever been placed, we have always found them to be our best and truest friend. At Sailors Creek, Virginia, April 6th 1865, we came off victorious over Custis Lee's brigade, that had enveloped us so closely on three sides that the bayonet was freely used." "The rifles now mostly are property of the men, and show the marks of hard service and exposure to all kinds of weather, but are still in as good serviceable condition as ever." (14)"

From: 14.) Spencer Repeating Firearms, Roy Marcot, Northwood Heritage Press, 1983, P 87, ISBN 0-9611494

Found on: http://www.civilwarguns.com/spencer2.html

[O. O. Howard]

http://armscollectors.com/mgs/spencer_repeating_rifle.htm

This might not be actual evidence of spencer's issued with bayonets, but it is a nice photo of a spencer and a bayonet that was with the rifle and fits it. At the very least it shows that the spencer coulduse a bayonet.

[BOSTON]

O. O. Howard wrote:

http://armscollectors.com/mgs/spencer_repeating_rifle.htm

This might not be actual evidence of spencer's issued with bayonets, but it is a nice photo of a spencer and a bayonet that was with the rifle and fits it. At the very least it shows that the spencer coulduse a bayonet.

Nice find, If anybody had any doubt that spencer rifles had bayonets or not, should satisfy them. I wonder if it also holds true for spencer carbines?

[O. O. Howard]

BOSTON wrote:

O. O. Howard wrote:

http://armscollectors.com/mgs/spencer_repeating_rifle.htm

This might not be actual evidence of spencer's issued with bayonets, but it is a nice photo of a spencer and a bayonet that was with the rifle and fits it. At the very least it shows that the spencer coulduse a bayonet.

Nice find, If anybody had any doubt that spencer rifles had bayonets or not, should satisfy them. I wonder if it also holds true for spencer carbines?

I wonder too. In some places, the talked about the spencer rifle being issues to those Michigan cavalry regiments, but I am wondering if it was just a misnomer and they really had carbines.

[BOSTON]

If there is a brass insert (sight) on the end of the barrel on a carbine, might mean it's bayonet ready. The only thing is that a bayonet may have not been necessary because of the cavalryman's saber. With the thought in mind that the cavalry were the only ones with carbines.

BOSTON

[BOSTON]

Kerflumoxed wrote:

Speaking of bayonets...wouldn't it be nice to have that command, "Fix - BAYONETS!", be available before ordering an infantry charge? There is something rather inspiring to hear several dozen bayonets clanking against the steel of the barrel as they are attached!

Under the present system, I suppose that bayonets are always "fixed", even when marching.

J

Read this paragraph last night from Harry Pfanz's, The Second Day, pg. 80-1; I was at Meade's HQ, the roar of battle was louder and grew nearer; Hill was threatening the center, a cloud of dust could be seen down the Baltimore Pike. Had Stuart suddenly gained our rear? There were anxious contenances around the cottage where the flag of the CIC was flying. Officers gazed with their field glasses. "It's not cavalry, but infantry," said one, "There is the flag, it is the Sixth Corps." We could see the advancing bayonets gleaming in the sun-light. Faces which a moment before were grave became cheerful. It was an inspiring sight.

Hope that sheds some light on marching with bayonets!

BOSTON