Why is the Bayonet being shortaned?

[O. O. Howard]

BOSTON wrote:

O. O. Howard wrote:

BOSTON wrote:

I'm pretty sure repeater infantry units did'nt have bayonets, never had luck to have a regular infantry unit do a charge when out of ammo.

I thought the Spencer did have a bayonet. The Sharps Rifle (breach loader but not repeater) did. I am almost certain that the Spencer did. I think the front sight is designed to take a more-or-less standard socket bayonet.

Read that the Berdan sharpshooters (2 regiments, 1st and 2nd) were assigned to Ward's brigade. In order to qualify to be in the regiments you had to put 10 consecutive rounds within 50 inches of a bullseye from 100 + 200 yards distance using a caliber .52 Sharps rifle. Some companies used a special target Sharpe rifle. Did not read any reference to bayonets.

BOSTON

I thought Berdan's men were issued Colt Rifles first and traded them in for Sharps later. Are you sure qualifications were done with a Sharps? The Sharps isn't really a repeating rifle anyway, but it definitely had a bayonet.

[BOSTON]

O. O. Howard wrote:

BOSTON wrote:

O. O. Howard wrote:

BOSTON wrote: I thought the Spencer did have a bayonet. The Sharps Rifle (breach loader but not repeater) did. I am almost certain that the Spencer did. I think the front sight is designed to take a more-or-less standard socket bayonet.

Read that the Berdan sharpshooters (2 regiments, 1st and 2nd) were assigned to Ward's brigade. In order to qualify to be in the regiments you had to put 10 consecutive rounds within 50 inches of a bullseye from 100 + 200 yards distance using a caliber .52 Sharps rifle. Some companies used a special target Sharpe rifle. Did not read any reference to bayonets.

BOSTON

I thought Berdan's men were issued Colt Rifles first and traded them in for Sharps later. Are you sure qualifications were done with a Sharps? The Sharps isn't really a repeating rifle anyway, but it definitely had a bayonet.

Harry Pfanz's writtings was the source of what I posted. Pg. 89 The Second Day.

[BOSTON]

Shirkon wrote:

BOSTON wrote:

O. O. Howard wrote:

BOSTON wrote: I thought the Spencer did have a bayonet. The Sharps Rifle (breach loader but not repeater) did. I am almost certain that the Spencer did. I think the front sight is designed to take a more-or-less standard socket bayonet.

Read that the Berdan sharpshooters (2 regiments, 1st and 2nd) were assigned to Ward's brigade. In order to qualify to be in the regiments you had to put 10 consecutive rounds within 50 inches of a bullseye from 100 + 200 yards distance using a caliber .52 Sharps rifle. Some companies used a special target Sharpe rifle. Did not read any reference to bayonets.

BOSTON

I did a fast internet check and found this. Sharps/Spencer Sword bayonet

Almost sounds like the same situation that was used with the old British Baker rifle.

For some reason that site you posted won't pop up on my computer, will do a search.

[BOSTON]

Found this;

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geut5eMIxLo ... harps.html

Had another good site for the Vermont sharpshooters, but lost it.

[BOSTON]

Might as well put the Hall rifle bayonet ? to bed also.

http://www.jjmilitaryantiques.com/catde ... sockbayous

It seems there is somewhat less info about the M1819 Hall breechloader than the Sharpes/ Spencer rifles, but at the very least this post on it's bayonet shows it existed.

BOSTON

[Shirkon]

BOSTON wrote:

Might as well put the Hall rifle bayonet ? to bed also.

http://www.jjmilitaryantiques.com/catde ... sockbayous

It seems there is somewhat less info about the M1819 Hall breechloader than the Sharpes/ Spencer rifles, but at the very least this post on it's bayonet shows it existed.

BOSTON

Try this for a Sharps Sword Bayonet. Keywords for any internet search for the Sharps bayonet is SWORD and BAYONET. A simple search for a bayonet will usually get you only the socket bayonets where both the Sharps and the Spencer had a Sword Bayonet.

Sharps Sword Bayonet

[BOSTON]

What got me into this bayonet theme is the ? if it would have been better to bayonet charge the union cavalry on Mcpherson's ridge by Herr's men, if the Union cav. had no bayonets? Read some on the arms of the day (1) and can't remember if the cav. had sharpes rifles or carbines. A purely tactical question.

[BOSTON]

BOSTON wrote:

What got me into this bayonet theme is the ? if it would have been better to bayonet charge the union cavalry on Mcpherson's ridge by Herr's men, if the Union cav. had no bayonets? Read some on the arms of the day (1) and can't remember if the cav. had sharpes rifles or carbines. A purely tactical question.

Adding a second thought to the tactic is; the use of assault columns,which might add to the effectiveness of a bayonet charge, but in GB is there a Assault column command button? For an assault column I think would get less fatiqued and be able to maintain the initiative longer. Without looking at an OOB I'd think a reb Infantry reg. far outnumbered a union cavalry battalon.

[Shirkon]

BOSTON wrote:

What got me into this bayonet theme is the ? if it would have been better to bayonet charge the union cavalry on Mcpherson's ridge by Herr's men, if the Union cav. had no bayonets? Read some on the arms of the day (1) and can't remember if the cav. had sharpes rifles or carbines. A purely tactical question.

Did another internet search for Civil War Cavalry and I found that most if not all Union Cavalry carried a light cavalry sabre along with their carbine. So a bayonet charge might not have been as effective as you might think.

[BOSTON]

Shirkon wrote:

BOSTON wrote:

What got me into this bayonet theme is the ? if it would have been better to bayonet charge the union cavalry on Mcpherson's ridge by Herr's men, if the Union cav. had no bayonets? Read some on the arms of the day (1) and can't remember if the cav. had sharpes rifles or carbines. A purely tactical question.

Did another internet search for Civil War Cavalry and I found that most if not all Union Cavalry carried a light cavalry sabre along with their carbine. So a bayonet charge might not have been as effective as you might think.

The saber seems to be a weapon intended to be used while mounted and wouldn't have the reach advantage of a bayonet mounted musket. Right next to me here, I have an 1862 cavalry saber that one of my father's uncles took as a war trophy during the battle of Bentonville, also a 1851 officer's sword from the same battle. When my father died I ended up with them. Weilding<spelling> the saber just now I really did not feel comfortable with how it handles and I'm a big guy. If I had a bunch of screaming rebs trying to stick me with bayonets I'd have to seriously think about moving on, "like see Ya later!". :laugh: