ok i'll be absolutly honest with you, scenario #2

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MrSpkr
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Re:ok i'll be absolutly honest with you, scenario #2

Post by MrSpkr »

rckgunny wrote:
well if i remember correctly heth was able to just brush the iron brigade aside easily with just 2 brigades , so you changed something in the art and in the inf. ????? i'll check it again in a few days . i doubt if its ready yet.

i am starting to lose faith a little. and 1 adjust ment all 4 of davies regiments should be in the scenario . at least they were engaged in that skirmish in 1863.i think it strange all of davies regts. are not there. 4 regts. are called for. davies wouldn't go into battle without all his regts. up and online. and another thing archers and davies brigades need to be back with the art. and not starting all the way forward.

rckgunny
You are incorrect, sir. Historically, Heth didn't brush anyone aside "easily". He attacked with his front two brigades around 10:00 a.m. and got his head handed to him. Archer and Davis were repulsed by a combination of Buford's cavalry and the Iron Brigade.

Heth gathered up his division and re-engaged that afternoon around 2:00 p.m. This time, he attacked with his entire division, driving the Federals back to Seminary Ridge. The Federal retreat can be attributed more to Rodes' attack north of the Cashtown Pike than to Heth's actual efforts.

Renewing his attack after a short break in the fighting, the remnants of Heth's division, with the assistance of Rodes' forces, managed to push the Federals back to Cemetary Ridge.

Historically, then, there is no basis for all four of Heth's brigades to be present for a skirmish starting at 10:00 a.m. Now, there are some variants allowing Pettigrew and Brockenbrough to "arrive early"; however, those are ahistorical and speculative in nature.

The reality is, Heth was foolish in his attack, he was in violation of standing orders forbidding him from joining in a general engagement, and his actual attack plan was simplistic and wasteful of his men's lives.

Finally, as to the placement of Archer and Davis' brigades -- you are always free to pull them back at the very beginning if you dislike their starting locations. You might be foolish in doing so given the time constraints, but you can do it.

To beat this scenario, what you probably should do is bring your artillery up to near your infantry's starting position and concentrate both Davis and Archer against the farm. Ignore the northern victory location -- it isn't worth the points to take it. Once you have seized the farm, move your artillery up to the farm itself to provide close range artillery support to your troops in order to hold off the Iron Brigade. Make sure you keep the artillery supplied with cannister in order to keep it from automatically retreating when it runs out.

Steve

P.S. And for the record, if anything, I'm a southern sympathizer, at least as to their military. I will not, however, softsoap historical realities.
Last edited by MrSpkr on Thu May 20, 2010 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"I'm ashamed of you, dodging that way. They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance."

Major General John Sedgwick's final words, Battle of Spotsylvania Courthouse, May 9, 1864
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RebBugler
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Re:ok i'll be absolutly honest with you, scenario #2

Post by RebBugler »

Yessiree, what he said.
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dcm
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Re:ok i'll be absolutly honest with you, scenario #2

Post by dcm »

rckgunny wrote:
well if i remember correctly heth was able to just brush the iron brigade aside easily with just 2 brigades , so you changed something in the art and in the inf. ????? i'll check it again in a few days . i doubt if its ready yet. i am starting to lose faith a little. and 1 adjust ment all 4 of davies regiments should be in the scenario . at least they were engaged in that skirmish in 1863.i think it strange all of davies regts. are not there. 4 regts. are called for. davies wouldn't go into battle without all his regts. up and online. and another thing archers and davies brigades need to be back with the art. and not starting all the way forward.

rckgunny
You might want to reread the book. Davis' 11th Miss. was detached to guard the division trains. Heth did not 'brush aside' the Iron Brigade. Archer's brigade was absolutely routed by a bayonet charge against his right flank which allowed his whole line to be flanked. Heth's second attack was successful with Pettigrew, but the Iron Brigade was still a tough nut. What was 'brushed aside' was Biddle's brigade, which then allowed Pettigrew to pounce on the Iron Brigade's exposed left flank. The scenario covers the first attack, not the second (although a mod of the second would be nice).
gbs
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Re:ok i'll be absolutly honest with you, scenario #2

Post by gbs »

Marching Thru Georgia wrote:
gbs wrote:
You are obviously not using the currier system and are TCing the regiments to control the movements you describe. I believe the scores you are getting but what fun is that?
I do use the courier system, but I also TC some of the regiments at critical times. I always TC the batteries. The goal in these scenarios is to accumulate a certain number of points in a certain amount of time, not necessarily win the battle. That's why I greatly prefer Sandbox play, where I almost never TC anything, unless I want to capture a battery. There, points don't matter, just beating the AI senseless. ;)

OK, I admit to getting a little frustrated now. Look back at some of my posy about TC and you will see that I have almost been scolded a bit for asking about how this works over and over again. I have been told that IF YOU USE CURRIERS THE RGTS WILL NOT RESPOND TO TC. Look and see for yourself. How does this work for you? I do not believe what you are saying above about using curriers and TC from time to time. When I do that nothing happens, nada, nothing...sorry to be so strident after all it's only a game.
Marching Thru Georgia
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Re:ok i'll be absolutly honest with you, scenario #2

Post by Marching Thru Georgia »

gbs wrote:
I do not believe what you are saying above about using curriers and TC from time to time. When I do that nothing happens, nada, nothing...sorry to be so strident after all it's only a game.
Aha! So you're the reason I always feel someone is looking over my shoulder when I play this. Wait, that's my better half...Are you trolling the web pages too, dear? :kiss:

You cannot give courier orders to a TC'ed unit. Well you can, but it won't do any good. Once they are un-TC'ed, they will again respond to courier orders or orders from their immediate superior. You may not like how they carry those orders out from time to time, but that's why the TC button was created. TC is the 'I am a god' button. It allows you to override the AI and any previous orders.
I can make this march and I will make Georgia howl.
Roberdeau Ch. Wheat
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Re:ok i'll be absolutly honest with you, scenario #2

Post by Roberdeau Ch. Wheat »

MrSpkr wrote:
The reality is, Heth was foolish in his attack, he was in violation of standing orders forbidding him from joining in a general engagement, and his actual attack plan was simplistic and wasteful of his men's lives.
Actually, Heth didn’t violate any orders at all. He expected only militia and/ or cav to be in town (in accordance with reconnaissance information of both Lee and Hill). Furthermore he had Hill’s permission to go to Gettysburg and “get those shoes”. I don’t think that he was foolish, maybe unlucky and certainly not prudent enough. He wasn’t expecting much resistance so no attention was paid to the marching order of the division and he used standard tactics: he shelled the woods with his arty and as nothing moved he advanced his men. So imo the first repulse of the confederates can be attributed to the smallness of Archer’s brigade and the inexperience of Davis and some of his Mississippi boys.

Btw, I think the scenarios has a good difficulty balance and everyone can beat it (at least at normal) and if not, you have at least relived history ;)
MrSpkr
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Re:ok i'll be absolutly honest with you, scenario #2

Post by MrSpkr »

I'm not sure Heth actually expected shoes to be in the town given that Jubal Early's men had been through Gettysburg on June 26, and would, in all likelihood, have already emptied the warehouse of shoes.

Heth should have broken off his assault once he realized he was facing fresh Union infantry. His failure to do so ruined most of his division and forced Lee into a battle on ground not of his choosing.

I also think Heth was foolish to lead any advance into enemy territory with (a) his smallest brigade and (b) his least experienced brigade.

Steve
"I'm ashamed of you, dodging that way. They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance."

Major General John Sedgwick's final words, Battle of Spotsylvania Courthouse, May 9, 1864
MrSpkr
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Re:ok i'll be absolutly honest with you, scenario #2

Post by MrSpkr »

Just replayed this one using the tactics I outlined a couple of posts above. The Union reinforcements moved very fast -- I had the Iron Brigade arriving at the farm within ten minutes.

I moved Archer up to rout out the Yankees around the farm; meanwhile, I moved up the three artillery batteries to positions about 180 yards from the Federal infantry. Davis crossed back over the railroad cut and held off the Federals (with a lot of help from the artillery) while Archer organized and moved up to take the Iron Brigade in the flank.

Final score: 4687. I am convinced I could have done even better had I been a little more careful about how close I let my artillery get to the Federals -- would have saved a heck of a lot of red leg casualties. Oh well -- maybe next time.

Pettigrew and Brockenbrough never made an appearance.

It can, however, be done. I was on normal difficulty, default settings. If anything, this scenario is easier under the current build than it was under the first version or the first beta.

Steve
Last edited by MrSpkr on Fri May 21, 2010 12:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
"I'm ashamed of you, dodging that way. They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance."

Major General John Sedgwick's final words, Battle of Spotsylvania Courthouse, May 9, 1864
gbs
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Re:ok i'll be absolutly honest with you, scenario #2

Post by gbs »

Marching Thru Georgia wrote:
gbs wrote:
I do not believe what you are saying above about using curriers and TC from time to time. When I do that nothing happens, nada, nothing...sorry to be so strident after all it's only a game.
Aha! So you're the reason I always feel someone is looking over my shoulder when I play this. Wait, that's my better half...Are you trolling the web pages too, dear? :kiss:

You cannot give courier orders to a TC'ed unit. Well you can, but it won't do any good. Once they are un-TC'ed, they will again respond to courier orders or orders from their immediate superior. You may not like how they carry those orders out from time to time, but that's why the TC button was created. TC is the 'I am a god' button. It allows you to override the AI and any previous orders.
Huh? Please explain how I make use of the TC flag. I am Heth at McPherson Farm. Currier set at Division. I want one of Davis' Rgts, say 42nd Miss, to join me at the objective site in line formation and NOT move. Could you please walk me through that process please?
rckgunny
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Re:ok i'll be absolutly honest with you, scenario #2

Post by rckgunny »

well idc what really happened but i need the 11th miss. to be engaged in this scenario , i don't need it uselessly guarding trains.
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